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Seeing a preoccupation by a Dev crew in hashing has been around for 2 years in BSV and this has always made me uncomfortable. You never saw this shit from bunch of others in BSV, just one crew. . I could always see where it might lead but I was willing to let it slide. Then it’s clear when the 0-sat output came out, and the implications of that for a free rider system and again the preoccupation with it even after CSW objected, and seeing chest thumping about hash arise, This is no deal with me where that crowd seems to be going . So thing here is people need to connect these two key dots . 1+1= 2
There are no truly 0 sat outputs on the main network. You can probably execute a completely valid 0 sat transaction output in matterpool's SPV network. These transactions could ultimately be settled at a later time or with a batch. Similarly you could use planaria software to capture valid 0 output. It all requires a delalyed settlement if you want it on the BSV chain itself. You actually cannot send a completely 0 sat transaction and have the mining network do anything with it. They'd have to add a minimum 1 satoshi output to this transaction to spend it or "etch" it on the network for you. So when they say you can do a free transaction, it's like the penny at the countertop in an old gas station. It's not a handout, but it's enough to ensure service. Basically to put the sha and timestamp on the actual chain, miners have these penny jars available for special cases. This is how they fix dusting issues on BTC and BCH. We won't encounter dusting issues until trillions of transactions are included in the spend history of a coin. Now, TAAL has a STAS technology in development that allows them to issue a dollar value or any property value (car title, loan agreement, real estate property, land, etc) and these satoshis that are agreed upon by relevant participants to have these values can be sent on the network at no fee because they are already satoshis. They are just special satoshis that people are treating as issued money or capital.
bpm replied:
Thanks but don’t fully agree. Just ask yourself why are they are thirsting so hard for 0 sat UTXO . That’s what made CSW go ballistic . Did you watch that video?
bpm replied:
Who has the link to ballistic CSW ?
seangray replied:
I watched the video. I know the context of the rumor started by the inklings to troll Calvin. They kept repeating false statements about STAS tokens, ultimately a developer heard these rumors and became concerned for the token price. So he asked Craig about it. A confused craig responds to the rumor and debunks it. The developer betrays his failure to understand what Craig has explained and asks a similar question with the added "well other devs are saying this" to which Craig becomes a bit more angry that he has to address this basic concept again. You have to spend a satoshi. The whole point of reducing fees to 0 sat/byte is that you can put everything you can imagine atop of one satoshi. You can't go completely no satoshis, just the additional bytes are not priced in satoshis. This is entry level 101 knowledge. Getting back to the video. At this point Craig says if those other devs want that they can find a new network. The devs don't want that. "those devs" Craig is talking about are The Inklings. They intentionally created the rumor to troll Calvin. So nobody wants to fork and this all just drama that The Inklings indirectly caused.
bpm replied:
It’s not a troll at all . It’s where they want to go , as I see it
seangray replied:
Well it definitively started as them criticizing TAAL for STAS, which they incorrectly understood to be a means of transacting on the network without any satoshis. The truth is every STAS is itself a transformed satoshi. They can do their 0 sat outputs with no satoshis on planaria or on matterpool SPV if they must. There won't be a hardfork of BSV just for them to not use their own network. It's all just drama from devs who want attention and can't keep up with progress.
bpm tipped:
bpm replied:
I appreciate you seem to be on the right side of things. I am not going to stop with elevating awareness to users though
seangray replied:
Matterpool is Josh Petty, Attila, Daniel K, Dean Little, and 2 others that I'd prefer believe they remain anonymous. They basically have The Inklings under their thumb. It's very difficult to counter their disinformation when it comes out because part of the group controls Twetch and they have a larger social media audience they can use against people. When I first started just teasing them about CREA, I received all kinds of spam from "Brightgang" associated users. They doxxed me and harassed me for a couple months. They took down websites associated with my twitter account and discussed how to steal BSV from me with a modified moneybutton. Trolling is definitely within their repertoire.
bpm tipped:
bpm replied:
Attila is out of that, as far as I know. He’s got his own thing now BlockPress. I doubt he was a source of any unsavory activity
bpm replied:
I agree desperation for some is increasing
seangray replied:
He was a strange guy. I tried to explain to him the STAS token and linked an article from Taal.com itself describing it. His response was to block me. Never interacted before or sense.
seangray replied:
*since (correction for my typo above) Yeah I agree about desperation here. It seems devs are struggling with the escalation of commitment. They were excited for the prospect of a wealth transfer from BTC to BSV igniting their business startups. They didn't plan for this much runway and are floundering.
bpm replied:
You and I are not far apart on most of it. I am well-exposed to the Dev power trip mentality that is used to draw in others. Where you see trolling, I see it as LARPing. That’s a minor difference in the big scheme
Interesting convo fellas. After the btc debacle, I realised BSV is a Loooong term thing, whos value would come from USE. Has enough been done to dissociate bsv from btc?? Because btc only has one place to go, and a lot of small “investors” (if you could btc an investment) will lose. The dev politics is unwanted noise, that just exposes the greed of short-term blindness.
I have missed the while 0 sat deal. can you explain? Is it the idea a transaction MUST have at least 1 sat?
seangray tipped:
bpm replied:
The issue of the transaction is in the UTXO , In the feudal nation of Bitcoin, the data is the land, the sat is the commodity, and the UTXOs are the castle that holds everybody’s value. The block reward is the inflationary tax and the fees are the fees to use land or to use the castle. You can already pay for a space in the castle to hold your value it’s not good enough for some because Bitcoin association courted barbarians into the nation by advertising cheap land. But now they are at the gates of the castle like “hey man hey man just let us all in for the night”. It’s clear if Barbarians were inside to have free ride in the castle , they aren’t paying for it anymore , nor the land , nor the commodity. All others will serve them like a serf
Thats helpful, thanks
seangray replied:
@acourseinmiracles you are 100% correct that a transaction MUST have at least 1 sat!
Lead is in class action sir ❤️
bpm replied:
I want to avoid it ever going that far. I want to prevent this before it gets a foothold, let alone network dominance
bpm replied:
I want to avoid it ever going that far. I want to prevent this before it gets a foothold, let alone network dominance
thoth replied:
They have taken funding money for "app features" pumped and dumped on holders via their own social network and now want to stab everyone in the back with the funds.
thoth replied:
night fox 🦊 is just them doing some social engineering