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On SPV

There is no SPV on Bitcoin SV at the moment. These are just some quick notes on what I've been thinking is needed for SPV to be doable.

The proof

There is no standard for a merkle proof. Every coin spent by someone who wishes to make a P2P payment needs this proof that is in a given block. ElectrumX has a JSON-based structure it has been serving to the internet at large for up to a decade (no idea how long I don't work on ElectrumX) and which ElectrumSV uses. ElectrumSV will be switching to the standard developed by the Bitcoin Association technical standards process. when that gets developed.

Receiving a payment

Someone gives you a P2P payment. They give you:

  • Their payment transaction.
  • For every input in the transaction, or coin being spent to pay you, the corresponding transaction that contains the UTXO for that payment coin.
  • For every transaction containing a payment UTXO, a merkle proof that shows it was mined in a given block.
  • They might even through some negotiation process give you all the headers you do not have that are needed to cover the largest height of any of their proofs.

Received payment micromanagement

Now you have a new transaction. You need some way of knowing when it gets mined so that you can in turn get it's merkle proof so you can use it in any payment.

So this suggests that an application needs some API where:

  • They can register transaction ids and can get notified when a transaction is mined.
  • They can fetch a merkle proof for a given transaction.

Commodity services

I suspect the future of commodity services that are fundamental requirements for applications and wallets to function are standard APIs and interoperability. This means that applications and wallets that need to use them will need to support the API of any service that offer them, and very likely this will mean that the services that offer a standard common API for this will eventuate.

Any service that requires registration or account creation for the use of their commodity services puts a barrier to adoption. Any service that has a custom payment protocol for the use of their commodity services puts a barrier to adoption. This would suggest that there must not only be a standard common protocol, but also a standard ad-hoc micro-payment protocol for applications or wallets to use.

Summing up

SPV looks like it requires services with the following things to be standardised:

  • How to receive notifications for when a transaction you have been paid with, is mined.
  • Fetching merkle proofs.
  • Syncing block headers.
  • Automated payment of services for API usage. Payment channels?
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Doesn't cover the case for spending transaction that has not been mined yet
electrumsv replied:
Sure it does whatever it is you mean by that. ElectrumSV already uses the model above based on ElectrumX and seems to cover it fine.
There is no SPV on BSV yet? The more I learn about BSV, the more disappointed I am.
electrumsv replied:
Not sure I understand what you mean.
musiq replied:
There is no SPV **anywhere**. Not on BTC. Not on BCH. If you don't understand what this means, that's fine and most people don't, but it's not really something to be disappointed about. A "real" SPV is not the SPV we know.
danlazo replied:
I'm disappointed by your response
electrumsv replied:
You still haven't given any real reason for why you were disappointed in the first place. Without it, it's just being negative. Happy to respond when you give it. -- rt12
danlazo replied:
disappointed about the overall lack of progress with BSV. There was big talk back in 2019. Any news on teranode? Haven't heard anything in several months.
electrumsv replied:
Go find it and pay attention.I suggest you start with Bitcoin Association's updates. It's not our fault you haven't been paying attention and think that means a lack of progress. -- rt12
danlazo replied:
Now I'm disappointed I haven't been paying attention.
"Electrum SV is based on the Bitcoin Association's technical standard process. Switch to the developed standard. "I thought so. I have an Electrum SV I haven't used it in the main yet. Hand Cash and Money Button I use it because I can trust it.
electrumsv replied:
The theory is that you can trust ElectrumSV because all the source code is public, so it should be as secure as the security of the computer you run it on. -- rt12
Finally, someone who actually gets it! If you're not already in touch, speak to any of the Technical Standards Committee members. There is a small team dedicated to Merkle Proof Standards. I'm sure they will welcome your contributions.